Can I Offer You Some Feedback? - Episode #53

Show Notes:

This week Sara is joined by Director of Advancement, Kayla! She has a tiny cocktail brewing of perfectionism and excitement around feedback. They discuss the unknowns of feedback delivered and how to understand your audience and tailor the message coming across. Subscribe to this podcast today and so you never miss an episode! 

Episode #53: Creating a Culture of Feedback

Sara: Welcome to, Can I Offer You Some Feedback? My name is Sara, and this is the podcast for those who have a complicated relationship with feedback and are looking to hear from real people across levels and industries with their ideas, perspectives, and best practices on feedback. Before we dive in, I'd like to introduce our guest for the podcast today, Kayla. She's the Director of Advancement. And welcome to the conversation today. 

Kayla: Thank you so much for having me, Sara. I am excited to be here. 

Sara: I'm excited too. Well, let's kick things off with the main question of the podcast. When I say the phrase, can I offer you some feedback? What's your gut reaction when you hear that? 

Kayla: Oh, it is a weird mix of excitement and dread, right? I'm someone who typically asks for and looks for feedback, but I also have a tiny cocktail brewing of perfectionism, imposter syndrome. So, there's that moment where I'm like, "Oh, goodness, yes, please tell me". But also, "Oh gosh, how big did I just mess up?"

Sara: And you don't know, right? It's the combination. I like you saying it's like a potion brewing or a cocktail being mixed. Like who knows how it's going to turn out? It's not always clear. When you're thinking about feedback, do you prefer to be the giver or the receiver? 

Kayla: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know whether this is a more common answer that you hear or not, but I definitely like to be the receiver of feedback. I think receiving feedback and intentional feedback at that is really one of the best things you can do for someone else to really acknowledge them and show your appreciation for their hard work, and also to help them grow. So, I like when my boss reaches out to me to say, "That was a really informative update because of this and that, that you sent out. And I'm going to share it with other leaders in the organization." Or when one of my team members tells me that I'm a really good manager because we worked through X, Y, and Z together. On the flip side, I also really appreciate opportunities to do better and to grow. So even with that brief moment of dread, I immediately have my wheels turning on like, okay, how can I do this better and what steps do I need to take to improve? 

Sara: Right. Cause there's a mix of both, right? You know, there's something in this feedback that's something that I can do, and totally, echoing back to that perfection orientation, I want to be the best, I want to do really well. But you also have to balance that with like, is it something I can actually do? Right?

Kayla: Exactly. 

Sara: Is it something I can actually change? When you're thinking about that feedback that either someone's preparing, they're delivering to you, what is it about or how do you define meaningful feedback? 

Kayla: I would say the first piece of that is definitely that it's specific. I can't count the number of times I've gotten feedback that something was good or bad without highlighting what made it good or bad. So if you tell me to improve for next time, I'm going to do everything within my power to do so, but I need to know what I'm improving. The other piece I would say is timely. I always tell my team that I'm never going to bring up something, say in an annual performance review, good or bad, that we've never talked about before. 

So now, I'm not saying I'm going to call a team member out in the moment, but I will absolutely give positive feedback in the moment in front of others when it's appropriate, but I'm going to go into further detail about what that was, or on positive feedback or even some more constructive feedback. That's something we'll discuss in an upcoming one-on-one or another meeting so that we really have time to talk through it in detail. But bringing something up in say August at the end of the fiscal year that happened in March, but was never addressed, that's completely unacceptable in my opinion. 

Sara: Yeah, and I think it doesn't provide that grounding. I mean, how accurately can you remember something that happened six months ago with detail? I always joke with folks, you know, I can't tell you what I had for lunch yesterday, let alone what I did six months ago. And that really helps make the feedback that much more effective and that much more impactful. You touched on a little bit, and I'm wondering if you can share an example or an experience of a time where you've seen meaningful feedback delivered. 

Kayla: Yeah. So when I think about that question, I think about all the times first that I haven't seen meaningful feedback delivered, right? I think about the time that a boss told me I sound too happy when I talk to donors on the phone, and no one would take me seriously. I think about the time I asked a team member to look into something via email and her immediate reaction was that she was worried she was getting fired. So, always opportunities to improve. 

But when I do think about an example of meaningful feedback, one example that comes to mind for me is a conversation I had with someone on my team. They were asking me for feedback but ended up providing me with feedback on my feedback. A bit of context to that, they wanted to provide some feedback to a coworker and read their email to me. I immediately responded that I thought it came off pretty harsh based on my understanding of the coworker and their personal relationship that they had as coworkers, that they feel reprimanded for something that needed to be addressed and it was ultimately a misstep. But it also wasn't something that was a huge deal. 

So I then told them how I would rephrase that and they shared with me that that felt really punitive in their eyes. So the conversation ultimately led to a super intentional discussion about understanding your audience and how different people perceive things differently so that when I'm giving feedback, I know it's not a one size fits all approach. It's really tailored to ensure that my message is getting across, but also that the person is going to receive and understand the message. So, I'm not going to address it just because they may be a bit more sensitive, but I also know if they feel attacked or defensive from the start, they probably aren't going to be open to receiving that feedback at all. 

Sara: Yeah. And it sounds like the feedback on the feedback, right? Little inception here. But the feedback to the feedback was helpful for you to hear. You know, maybe they took your response as being defensive, right? Which then put them on the defensive. Right? And so, I think that to have the space where you can have that candid conversation with someone and say, you know what, I brought this to you because I wanted to know this and instead I was getting this. And sure, maybe some of that's on me, I could have done it a little differently, but also like, how you reacted was a little bit different than I expected. And you said that was an intentional conversation and really an opportunity to probably uncover some other things with that person that you hadn't had a chance to really talk about. 

Kayla: Yes. 

Sara: If I were out giving wishes in the universe and people could do one thing better regarding feedback, what would it be? 

Kayla: Well, I would say going back to understanding that it isn't a personal attack. And I should say usually, right? I can't speak for what happens with other folks or other teams, but I know and my team knows that when I offer feedback, my goal isn't to embarrass them with positive feedback or to reprimand them with negative feedback. We are so dedicated working together towards a shared goal and if there are ways for us to work smarter, not harder, or just improve our general workflow, I'm really all for it. And I think, again, that understanding piece is really important. 

I know you said one, but on the flip side, I also think that for those people giving the feedback, doing a quick self-assessment to determine how you can take the bias out of your feedback. So, I think sometimes folks can provide feedback from a place of frustration. I think it's really important to step back, maybe pause and take some time to ensure that you are providing helpful feedback and not just ranting and disguising that as feedback.

Sara: Right. And is that feedback really for your benefit or for theirs? Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean they can't do anything about it. Again, and not to say that it's not valid, but really what's the intention around it? It's important to think about. So, Kayla, for our last question in our time together, can I offer you some feedback? 

Kayla: Please do. And I say that with 100% excitement and 0% dread, Sara. 

Sara: Excellent. You know, we've known each other for a couple of years at this point and we've had the opportunity to connect in a couple of different spaces. One of the things that I have found really exceptional that you do is, and it's kind of surprising that the example you shared where your manager was saying you're too happy with donors, which is interesting feedback itself. I really appreciate how now you're oriented. The grounding and the present and that you know what, right now this is what I can do. I'm going to show up my best. I've got this positivity, I've got this optimism. And it's a growth orientation too. 

I know in every conversation that I've had the pleasure of having with you has been very much, you know what, this is it right now. This is what the focus is and I'm doing my best. Right? I'm going to show up, I'm going to be positive, I'm going to think about what I can do better, but I'm not going to look back and wish and should have, what could have, I'm here now and, and what can I do better for next time? And I hope that your colleagues see that. I hope your team sees that. And I think that's something that I wish a few more folks had. That kind of appreciation that, you know what, we can't go back, but I can change forward. And I can do that with optimism, I can do that with creativity, and I can do that with a bit of a growth mindset. So, I just wanted to say thank you for that. 

Kayla: Well, thank you so much for that feedback, Sara. I really appreciate it. And I have found our relationship so impactful and helpful over the years and just look forward to continuing to grow that. 

Sara: Kayla, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me, and thanks to you for joining us in another episode of Can I Offer You Some Feedback? You can reach me at podcast@mod.network. We would love to hear from you on your thoughts on feedback, or any other perspectives you'd like to hear from next. And as always, give us a quick rating on your platform of choice and share this podcast with a friend. And I'm hoping that tomorrow you take a chance and offer some feedback when it's needed most.